Free Beer! (a quick pep talk)
Oct 19, 2010
5 Comments
The “Open Letter to Dean Brown” has got me thinking about happiness. I thought I was happy, but then I read the letter and became slightly less happy. Then I read the comments, both positive and negative, and they reaffirmed my decreased level of happiness. Things were not looking good, but then I remembered that there will be free beer in the yellow room tomorrow in celebration of Oktoberfest, and all seems right with the world again.
In general, I tend to think that everything will work out for the best. This policy helps me maintain my sanity and focus on the things I need to do, rather than become mired down in a miserable sea of “what ifs.” The market is bad, but it will improve. We can’t change it by worrying about it. We can, however, make ourselves miserable and distract ourselves from the task at hand: working hard and succeeding in law school. The fact is we’re here and we need to make the best of it. We’ve committed time, money, and effort, and we may as well see this thing through to the finish. Admittedly, securing a job at a top firm upon graduation is financially reassuring, but if you are not one of the lucky few who hit that jackpot, it’s not the end of the world. Finding a job is going to be a challenge, but in the quest to do so, you might wind up exploring an avenue you never thought of pursuing and find yourself the better for it. (Check out 300+ suggestions for alternative career options for those with a legal degree at this site.)
In any case, as I said before, it’s always better and more productive to look on the bright side. You’re not starving, you go to a highly regarded law school, and you have access to opportunities that most people in the world can only dream of (sounds corny but you have to admit it’s true). On the whole, things really aren’t all that bad. Did I mention there is free beer tomorrow?
Who posted this article?
I’m not sure what year you are, so it is hard to know whether your advice is sound. But providing the advice of seeing it through is financially irresponsible.
The reality is that with a curriculum that relies on curved grading, people will ultimately fall “below the curve.”
Advising those who fall below the curve to sink themselves into debt further with the current market seems irresponsible.
If you are paying for law school yourself and are facing $180K with a goal to work at a biglaw firm and your grades reflect that being an unlikely outcome, there is almost no reason to stay and rack up the debt. Obviously this doesn’t apply to those who don’t have to worry about the debt, or who don’t care about a high paying job. Though I think you’ll hear from many 3Ls who don’t care about working in biglaw and still are struggling to find a job that they regret sticking it out as well.
I guess it all depends on what your goals are. But if you came to law school to be a biglaw attorney and bring in the money and that isn’t an option because of your grades, then it is completely illogical to sink yourself further into debt just to get a piece of paper that will not help you realize your goals.
I do think drinking lots of beer helps with all of this though, so I accept your point there.
I think 2011’s suggestion is ridiculous.
Sink yourself up to a certain point in debt, and then give up on the degree? Why are you still here then? Why not drop out this semester?
I didn’t say I had a concern about it. The point is that if your JD is going to be worthless at $180K in debt, then why not just leave and save yourself half of that?
I believe I pointed out that this suggestion applies to people who want a job in biglaw making $160K year and who don’t have the grades to get it. Why sink yourself further in debt to graduate with a degree that will never get you where you want to go? The idea that once you’ve put a year into law school and end up doing poorly that you should just drop another $80K in tuition out of principle is irresponsible, financially and professionally.
This is why there are so many miserable 3Ls right now looking for jobs.
Obviously if you want to be a lawyer no matter what, then you should finish. Or if you don’t care about making the big bucks after law school. Or you’re innovative and can carve your own path. The idea that somehow jobs are going to appear out of thin air for mediocre (or below mediocre) students is absurd. Why take on all the debt?
I’m guessing a 1L wrote this column, because this is really poor advice, as any unemployed recent grad will tell you. Anyone who is only in their first year who is not in the top half of their class and is not on essentially full scholarship/family assistance really should drop out, and can do so with very little lifelong consequences. Moreover, even 2L’s and 3L’s who don’t have either stellar grades or journal experience and don’t have any job prospects should think seriously about it. This is especially true for anyone who has any kind of degree or experience to fall back on – a science or engineering undergraduate degree, a teaching credential, real world experience, etc. If you have an English undergrad and no job experience, and think the only kind of job you could get is as as a secretary, then maybe it makes sense to stay in school (although you’re paying $60K + whatever you could make as a secretary = almost $100K for each year of school). I would advise everyone to look and see what’s out there – see if you can get a decent job that interests you that pays ok, and I think it’s better to cut your losses rather than incur another $60K or more of debt. $120K of debt seems incredibly scary, but its still a lot better than $180K.
Looking on the bright side is a nice thought, but it’s really not going to help you when you have $200,000 of debt and can only find a job that pays you $50,000 a year. I had a huge scholarship and a lot of family assistance, and I graduated with $25,000 of debt, a number that is very low by law school debt standards, but will probably still take me close to 5 years to pay off, at my current salary (I live in an area with a very high cost of living) – and I have a job as a lawyer (albeit not in big law). I cannot even imagine how I would feel if I had $180K of debt. Keep in mind that in addition to the debt you graduate with, the only way to find a job as a lawyer (at least if you don’t have an offer by 3L fall) is to pay for the bar exam yourself, and depending on the state this can cost $10,000 just of bar review class fees + living expenses, not even factoring in lost salary, because its impossible to work full time and study for the bar effectively.
I am fortunate that it worked out for me, that my debt is manageable, and I found a job at a great small firm practicing a kind of law I really love. I’m happy I went to law school and happy I finished it. However, you can absolutely be assured that if I had been laying out $60K+ per year, I would not have come back for 3L year after being no-offered as a 2L summer, and would have immediately tried to find a job & start paying down the debt. It would have been the only hope I would have had of ever owning a home/sending my hypothetical kids to college, and I’m young (25 when I graduated law school), so I can imagine older students with families feeling even more pressure.
Amen. I don’t get this “stick it out” mentality. Look around people. Right now I’d guess at least 60% of 3Ls have no permanent employment lined up for after graduation – which is 7 months away.
My advice right now that OCI is (mostly) over is if you are paying/borrowing full tuition and you have no job – LEAVE. Unless of course money isn’t a concern or you aren’t interested in practicing for money or have some plan. But I know so many 3Ls who came to law school to work at firms, didn’t get those jobs and struggle to get anything because they have nothing on paper to fall on to show they are interested in public interest. Or they get the public interest jobs because they do have good grades, which just shrinks that sector for students who are genuinely interested in public interest.
It just honestly is not worth it to leave school with $120 – $180K in debt and no job or a job paying $50K/year where nearly all of your pay will be paying off this debt, which will take all of your 20s and most of your 30s if you’re lucky.
It just is not worth living that long with the dark cloud of debt. Trust me. TRUST ME. It sounds like a terrible option to quit – but shake it off and move on. It beats a decade or more of painful debt repayments.